Saturday, November 7, 2009

Dave Neiwert attacks Jerome Corsi for linking the Fort Hood shooter with Obama and doesn’t debunk one word Corsi says

Neiwert’s response to Corsi’s story linking Nidal Malik Hasan to Obama: ad hominem attacks and diversion. Once again showcasing why Neiwert is a Fraudie nominee

by Larry Simons
November 7, 2009

Liberal blogger Dave Neiwert is up to his old tricks again: When he doesn’t like something someone says about Obama or anything else he supports, he simply just calls them nuts, denies that it is true, links to his own articles in an attempt to debunk his opponent and most importantly, does not debunk ONE WORD of the article he is condemning.

In his latest article at Crooks and Liars, Neiwert slams author Jerome Corsi for writing an article on the website World Net Daily entitled, “Shooter Advised Obama Transition”, in which Corsi claims that Nidal Malik Hasan, [the alleged gunman who killed 13 fellow soldiers and wounded 30 at the Fort Hood Army post in Killeen, Texas on Thursday] was a participant at a Homeland Security Policy Institute Presidential Transition Task Force.

The document that was published on May 19 titled, “Thinking Anew – Security Priorities for the Next Administration: Proceedings Report of the HSPI Presidential Transition Task Force, April 2008 – January 2009," lists Hasan’s name on page 29 under a list of Task Force Event participants, not as members of the Task Force.

[click to enlarge]


Hasan was attending the meetings as a member of the Uniformed Services University School of Medicine faculty at George Washington University. Corsi says in his article that the deputy director of the Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University, Daniel Kaniewski, told him in a phone interview that the Nidal Hasan listed as attending the meetings of the HSPI Presidential Transition Task Force was the same person as the alleged shooter in the Fort Hood massacre.

Whether all this means anything is one thing. What does have meaning is the blatant dodge, deflect and ignore tactics used by liberal blogger Dave Neiwert in his Crooks and Liars article, “WND conspiracist’s bogus claim: Hasan advised Obama’s transition team”. In the article, Neiwert posts a captured screenshot of Corsi’s story from World Net Daily, a segment of Corsi’s story and a segment from a story from Media Matters, and immediately Neiwert goes straight into attack mode from that point on until the end of his story.

One thing you won’t find in Neiwert’s story; a refutation of Corsi’s story. The only part of Corsi’s story that should be called into question is the fact that Corsi appears to have misrepresented his story by the headline he chose. His headline was, “Shooter Advised Obama Transition”, but in Corsi’s article he says this:

“While the GWU task force participants included several members of government, including representatives of the Department of Justice and the U.S Department of Homeland Security, there is no indication in the document that the group played any formal role in the official Obama transition, other than to serve in a university-based advisory capacity.”

Then he says:

“Daniel Kaniewski, deputy director of the Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University affirmed to WND in a telephone interview this morning that the Nidal Hasan listed as attending the meetings of the HSPI Presidential Transition Task Force was the same person as the alleged shooter in the Fort Hood massacre.

Kaniewski said Hasan attended the meetings in his capacity as a member of the faculty of the Uniformed Services University School of Medicine, not as a member of the HSPI Presidential Task Force.”


Neiwert does have a point that Corsi’s headline and what is said in the story itself appear to be complete opposites, but one thing Neiwert does not do is offer any refutation of the fact that Hasan’s name does appear on the Task Force Event Participant list. The participants in the HSPI Presidential Transition Task Force were apparently more important than just people who signed up to attend a few meetings; they were each mentioned by name in the HSPI Proceedings Report.

These participants were obviously not just the equivalent to people who gather around to hear a political speech. They were participants, not mere bystanders or observers. If this had happened under Bush and Hasan’s name was on some participants list that were connected to a Bush transition task force, not only would Neiwert have already written and posted five stories about it on Crooks and Liars, he would be calling Hasan a right wing extremist, a lone wolf assassin and linking him with Ron Paul, the Patriot/militia movement and calling him a terrorist.

Naturally, since Hasan was involved in a Presidential Task Force for Obama, he’s none of those things. In fact, if you even think anything negative of him, then you’re a kook. Here are the words Neiwert uses to describe Corsi: ‘Wingnut’, ‘conspiracy-meister’ and ‘extremist’.

After the Media Matters portion Neiwert posted, the next five paragraphs of his article are nothing but one long ad hominem attack on Corsi, not one word of it anything resembling a refutation.

Neiwert attacks Corsi’s books, “The Obama Nation”, “The Late Great U.S.A.”, his swift boat book and a book he did about the militia movement. What does all that have to do with Corsi’s story? Not a goddamned thing. How does mentioning Corsi’s past books refute him on the Hasan story? It doesn’t. It’s Neiwert’s way of saying, “Damn, I can’t refute a word of it [panic, panic, panic]….ohh, uh, by the way, Corsi’s books are crap, his associations are crap, he’s a liar and a kook, don’t believe Corsi, he’s a nutball.”

It’s the old tiresome “I can’t attack his facts, so I will attack HIM” tactic that I have seen all too often in my political journey. Notice Neiwert didn’t attempt to say, “Here’s why the Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University is crap and false”. He can’t. They exist.

Notice Neiwert didn’t attempt to say, “The May 19 report entitled "Thinking Anew – Security Priorities for the Next Administration: Proceedings Report of the HSPI Presidential Transition Task Force, April 2008 – January 2009 is crap and made up”. He can’t. It’s real.

Notice that Neiwert didn’t attempt to say, “Hasan’s name isn’t really on that Task Force participants list”. He can’t. Hasan’s name is on it.

Neiwert didn’t have a choice but to rattle off the ad hominem attacks. He was in a corner; in panic mode. He didn’t have a refutation to offer his 12 readers, so it was time to attack, attack, attack.

Neiwert’s purpose is very clear: when someone goes on a shooting rampage, all Neiwert looks for is that the perpetrator believes some unpopular view or “theory” and bingo, they are a right wing extremist. It doesn’t matter to Neiwert how distant the connection is, or if there is a connection at all. If someone kills 15 people at a mall and it turns out they might have [at some point in their life] just heard of Alex Jones, they are a lone wolf, right wing extremist.

But Hasan can be a participant of a Presidential Task Force for the Obama transition, and to Neiwert, if you even say that out loud, let alone draw a connection from it, you are the world’s biggest kook.

Here is video showing Hasan at the Homeland Security Task Force conference

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

L: One thing you won’t find in Neiwert’s story; a refutation of Corsi’s story.

even you accept Corsi's headline is misleading. What more "refutation" do you need

Neiwert's "story" says - RIGHTLY - that Corsi is transparently trying to make Hasan into "an Obama advisor" - and is playing fast and loose with the truth, as usual.

Interesting you find fault with Neiwert but not Corsi. Neiwert was accurate - Corsi - or at least his headline - was not.

Anonymous said...

L: Neiwert’s purpose is very clear: when someone goes on a shooting rampage, all Neiwert looks for is that the perpetrator believes some unpopular view or “theory” and bingo, they are a right wing extremist.

Don't be stupid.

Neiwert gives a whole series of examples of Corsi's "output", and his regular readers understand very well the role Corsi plays in furthering the crossover of mainstream conservatism and extremism.

You refuse to acknowledge this crossover of extremism into conservatism is even happening.

Anonymous said...

Neiwert says of WND:

"...WorldNetDaily [has played] a significant media role for many years
in.....what I have described as "the transmission belt....the continuum between far-right wingnuts like the WND crowd and mainstream conservatives......"

and guess what?

"one of the organizations that has rented WND's mailing list is ... the Republican National Committee."

The rationale? Neiwert gives it:

The idea, much as it was in the 1990s, is to delegitimize Obama's presidency by whipping up the far right with unhinging conspiracy theories that spread into the mainstream as well. This undermining is then exploited by the "mainstream" Republicans in precisely the way we've just witnessed with the teabaggers' derailing of the health-care debate. It's deeply cynical -- not to mention dangerous -- but hey, it works.

Real Truth Online said...

Youre an idiot. The point of my story is that anytime there is the teeniest, tinyist link between a shooter who kills a group of people and any kind of "right wing" association----Neiwert is on top of it like flies on shit, ready to crucify what he calls "right wing extremism"----but NOW we have a guy who attended an Obama transition conference and naturally, since Neiwert is an Obama lover, anyone who simply points this out is "nuts"----when, if this was a Bush conference, Neiwert would be suggesting that Hasan be thrown into Gitmo for the next 50 years.

Corsi wasnt hiding the fact that Hasan was NOT a MEMBER of the task force---he MENTIONED it IN the article! I agree, the headline is misleading, but that doesnt illegitimize the FACT that Hasan participated in these Obama transition conferences. If this conference was about a "right wing" person--my oh my would Neiwert be going apeshit over it. Since its an Obama connection----then we must all be CRAZY.

Real Truth Online said...

Neiwert has NEVER, EVER debunked what he deems a "conspiracy theory"---all he has EVER done was just say "its crap and the people that believe them are nuts". That's not debunking them. He doesnt even ADDRESS them, he just starts unleashing the ad hominem attacks. By the way, why arent you posting as "The Last Name Left"? I KNOW its you!

Anonymous said...

here's Jerome Corsi - being interviewed by Willis Carto's AFP....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxp84Hjyet8

here's stormfront - promoting Corsi's stuff:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-567817.html

So.......clearly of some considerable appeal to ...errr......extremists......like NAZIS.

Here's Corsi's basic spiel:

The basic allegation of the North American Union (NAU) conspiracy theory is that “behind closed doors, the Bush administration has collaborated with the governments of Mexico and Canada to merge the three nations into one Socialist mega-state.”8 The quote is from an online video featuring long-time ultra-conservative leader Howard Phillips interviewing author Jerome R. Corsi on Phillips’ “Conservative Roundtable” program.

Phillips, Corsi, and Phyllis Schlafly are among the major right-wing figures promoting the conspiracy theories about the NAU.9 Others include former Presidential candidate Patrick Buchanan; right-wing organizations such as the John Birch Society and Accuracy in Media; right-wing media including World Net Daily, Human Events; and supporters of libertarian Republican Presidential aspirant Ron Paul.10 Antisemitic publications such as The American Free Press have also jumped on the North American Union conspiracy juggernaut.


Gee - what a shock to see "anti-semitic AFP" tied up with Corsi......and WND....

Anyway - it is without doubt that Neiwert is right about Corsi. He doesn't criticise Corsi needlessly - Corsi bloody deserves all the opprobrium he gets as he IS a right-wing nut - and he most certainly has been cozy with extremists - even crypto nazis. Who is to say Corsi is no crypto nazi? He's hanging out with them - he seems popular amongst organised fascism. So.....what's the appeal of Corsi to the extremists, Larry? What separates Corsi from the extremists......the Nazis?

What separates you from them?

I mean, what must one believe to "be" a Nazi? How much can one share the views of nazis, before one "is" a Nazi?

Neiwert knows that continuum better than you, I think. Why don't you learn something from him, instead of ignorantly criticising him?

Anonymous said...

why arent you posting as "The Last Name Left"? I KNOW its you!
-------------

So I don't need logging in with such a long name, right?

the_last_name_left said...

L: if this was a Bush conference, Neiwert would be suggesting that Hasan be thrown into Gitmo for the next 50 years.

don't be silly! As if Neiwert would. What are you on about?

You don't know anything about Neiwert, clearly.

the_last_name_left said...

For instance - here is Neiwert speaking about Bush

Certainly the wreckage he's leaving behind isn't the mark of someone in full command of his faculties.

and about Obama signing into effect a commitment to close Guantanamo, Neiwert writes:

At long last:

So, seemingly you were completely wrong. Right? :)

the_last_name_left said...

L: If this conference was about a "right wing" person--my oh my would Neiwert be going apeshit over it. Since its an Obama connection----then we must all be CRAZY.

How do you know he wasn't/isn't rightwing?

I'm wondering what point you think Corsi is making in his article. What point is Corsi making? What is he telling us? Why? What is it supposed to mean?

Without any good answers to those questions then it seems the point of the article is guilt by association. It just raises spectres.....seems a completely cynical exploitation of the event imo.

the_last_name_left said...

from HuffPost:

In short, the facts Corsi obtained torpedo the premise of his piece, which, I remind you, is that the "shooter advised [the] Obama transition." Were this being written for a responsible journalistic entity, some creature called an "editor" would have stepped in and said, "Hey, Jerome, you realize that by your own findings, you article is complete horseshit, right?" But this is World Net Daily, written by and for complete charlatans.

UPDATE: I contacted Frank Cilluffo, the director of the HSPI at George Washington University, who tells me that Nidal Hasan has no affiliation with the HSPI or with George Washington University, at all. "[Hasan] has no role on the task force, other than the fact that he attended these meetings as an audience member, as did hundreds of others." Hasan's name appears on the list of participants only because he provided the HSPI with an RSVP, indicating his attendance. Cilluffo told me, "We always record RSVPs and publish them as a matter of transparency, and will continue to do so."

Larry said...

"How do you know he wasn't/isn't rightwing?"

So Obama is RIGHT wing now??

Whew!

Larry said...

"Without any good answers to those questions then it seems the point of the article is guilt by association."

Thats Neiwert's trademark---GUILT BY ASSOCIATION! I read his bullshit on C & L ALL THE TIME. Its NOTHING BUT guilt by association! He claimed that Ron Paul was a white supremacist just because some white supremacists supported him and had their picture taken with Ron Paul! As if Ron Paul, everytime he is asked to be in a picture with someone, is supposed to ask them "hey, before I stand here in this photo with you---are you a white supremacist?"

His SPECIALTY is guilt by association pieces! I know MORE about Neiwert than YOU do. He banned me from posting at his own site, Orincus, for telling the TRUTH. Oh by the way, I love how you didnt debunk ONE WORD of my reply to you about the woodstoves.

Larry said...

More of your Willis Carto bullshit. Do you realize you are more of a conspiracy theorist than I AM?? You believe Carto is trying to take over the world---lol.

Larry said...

Oh by the way, the North American Uion is REAL asshole.

Here's scumbag Robert Pastor talking about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA17fEgLXFE

Heres Ron Paul talking about it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSXQLUIc1Ak&feature=related

Theres ALREADY a European Union! And youre suggesting that a NAU is such a far out impossibility???

Not Larry said...

Larry was barred from participation at C&L and Orcinus, amongst other places. Is the animus towards Neiwart any surprise?

the_last_name_left said...

No, not a surprise. :D

And let's not forget Larry just so happens to promote and endorse Corsi's views. And all the rest of it.

Funny thing is - Neiwert's general point is right - and Larry is the proof of it.

Larry supports J Corsi, WND, Alex Jones etc. Larry also linked to and promoted Willis Carto's AFP. Just as he does J Corsi now......

Larry is part of the transmission belt that Neiwert writes about -- whereby far-right ideas get "mainstreamed".

And doesn't it work? The fascists have people like Larry pimping for them. People who would surely be upset about being considered "a fascist" - like Larry, perhaps - end up pimping for the fascists, often without even knowing it. I mean - if you are saying the same things as fascists, then......what's the difference?

Corsi is a good example of how the lines are blurring.......he can have a bestseller, and feature at Stormfront Radio w.e.

Where, and with whom Larry stands is clear.

Funny thing is though, he insists "the left/right paradigm is false".

It must just be coincidence that all his thoughts are 'rightwing' and that he instinctively supports the kookiest rightwing nut over any sane and coherent liberal.

Corsi trots out the same anti-socialist cack that all the others do, Larry. Alex Jones thinks wealth redistribution is "communist trash".

But there's no left/right divide? LOL

Larry said...

lol--I find it quite amusing that you think Im a part of this grand fascist conspiracy when you have yet to debunk me on ANY topic we've debated over. Did you watch the videos I posted of Ron Paul and Robert Pastor talking ABOUT the North American Union? Yet you call it a "conspiracy"? Hmmmmm. Is the European Union a "conspiracy"? Or is that REALITY right now?

You dont debunk ANYTHING I ever say. You didnt respond to my response to your post about my woodstove question---I wonder why??? You didnt respond at ALL to me telling you that Neiwert himself uses the guilt-by-association crap ALL THE TIME. Did you even care to read my post about that? Of course not! You read two words I say, then start typing away with your Willis Carto crapola. Are YOU a conspiracy theorist TOO????? You must be! You think theres a big Willis Carto, Jim Tucker, Alex Jones conspiracy! And you have ZERO proof of it! ZILCH.

Larry said...

"It must just be coincidence that all his thoughts are 'rightwing' and that he instinctively supports the kookiest rightwing nut over any sane and coherent liberal."

Funny, because believing that 9-11 was an inside job is considered to be about the farthest LEFT you can possibly go--and yet you insist ALL my views are "RIGHT wing"------too funny! I am also an agnostic----which many would call LEFT wing. I dont give a shit about gay marriage---also a view that many would call LEFTIST. I hate a SLEW of people that many would call RIGHT wing----including George W Bush, John McCain, Cheney, Limbaugh, Coulter, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Bill O Reilly---and so on and so on. Look at my nominees for Fraud of the Year----they include Bill O Reilly and a conservative minister-----yeah---REAL RIGHT wing there! My nominees last year included O Reilly, the same conservative minister, Hannity and John McCain----yeah, soooo RIGHT wing I am! I think Lincoln was one of our worst Presidents-----Im sooooooo RIGHT wing huh?

You are a MORON with a bad case of foot-in-mouth-itis.

Andy Ostroy is sane and coherent??? YOU are sane and coherent? Ive schooled you COUNTLESS times. You cant debunk ONE story Ive written about Ostroy--OR Neiwert, OR Obama----because if you could, you would have done it by now!

Anonymous said...

you called last fraud left out again larry. great job. hiding behind another name lol. has he answered your wood stove question yet? hes pardon the pun.... burned again.

the_last_name_left said...

L: believing that 9-11 was an inside job is considered to be about the farthest LEFT you can possibly go

No, Larry. No, No, No, No, No.

I'd love to open this issue out......but you always refuse to go there.

I mean - are you suggesting that you are "about as left wing as one could go"?

You're not. Like I say - I'd like to expand on this, but you never want to......so it's pointless trying. Right?

L: I dont give a shit about gay marriage

Good for you. The thing is, so many of your political brethren do care. And they don't like it.

So don't support them? Write articles in support of gay marriage and stuff? Criticise people who stupidly condemn it?

L: I hate a SLEW of people that many would call RIGHT wing----including George W Bush, John McCain, Cheney, Limbaugh, Coulter, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Bill O Reilly---and so on and so on.

Again - good for you. I'm pleased. That still doesn't make you Marxist-Leninist, does it?

If you were, you'd have no problem understanding peoples' disgust at the stuff you do support. There's a long way between Limbaugh and socialism.

-----

woodstove? again - I'll say - they do melt, at high enough temperature. Everything does.

Larry said...

L: believing that 9-11 was an inside job is considered to be about the farthest LEFT you can possibly go

"No, Larry. No, No, No, No, No."

See, youre living proof the left/right paradigm is false. The right call 9/11 conspiracy theories LEFT, and the left call them RIGHT-------PROVING the whole left/right thing is PHONY. If it WASNT phony, each view [that someone holds] would be on only ONE definitive side. Both sides wouldnt be passing it off to the other side----but as you can see, they DO pass it off like a hot potato. Everyone on FOX News calls 9/11 truthers FAR LEFT kooks. YOU call me far RIGHT. How does that prove that the left/right paradigm is TRUE? Both sides say "Nope, its the other side---they arent one of US!"

"Again - good for you. I'm pleased."

Because you AGREE right?

"woodstove? again - I'll say - they do melt, at high enough temperature. Everything does."

Yeah, and Ive ALREADY addressed you saying this. You never replied to the RESPONSE I gave to you saying that BEFORE----so, I simply say that you didnt address my RESPONSE, and what do YOU do? You REPEAT the ORIGINAL answer you gave. Youre a complete fraud.

Larry said...

THIS is what I said you didnt respond to---ya dick:

"Oh woodstoves melt huh? Oh OK, so if I have a woodtstove in my house and I put wood inside and set it on fire, it will [according to you] turn into a big gob of molten steel right before my eyes? What's the point of having a woodstove if when I want to keep warm, the entire thing melts right before my eyes? I think my point is strikingly obvious asshole: Since woodstoves OBVIOUSLY do NOT melt when people throw wood inside of them to heat their homes, then its pretty damned safe to say that the steel in the twin towers did not melt EITHER due to fire.

Keep in mind ass monkey---that the fires in the twin towers were not very hot at all, due to MOST of the jet fuel already being burned up upon impact [hence the big fireball we all saw] and that the fires were out in the open [not contained]. The smoke was also black [sign of an oxygen-starved fire]. The heat inside of a woodstove would be MUCH hotter since the fire is contained and is not exposed to air [with the exception of the air vent, which is very small]---yet woodstoves do NOT melt--for if they did, they would be useless. Since there was molten steel found in the rubble of the WTC as long as several MONTHS after 9/11 [as reported by firefighters and rescue workers who had to continually keep changing their boots because they melted], then the only thing to conclude from that is that the steel melted because of high-tech explosives [nano-thermite]--in which physicist Steven Jones possess a piece of."

How long will you IGNORE this?

Anonymous said...

talking about gay marriage last fraud. when will you marry him?

Anonymous said...

becareful larry during the war his grand dad fought boredom. lol.

Anonymous said...

this guy is a idiot larry.

me said...

this last fraud left believes a pot or pan will melt on a stove if it burns long enough..lol.lol. what a fn queenie.