Thursday, September 10, 2009

The Fall of Alex Jones and the End of Free Speech at Prison Planet and Infowars


Liar and hypocrite Alex Jones has fallen. He has angered scores of supporters and even colleague George Noory. Free speech on his websites...dead

by Larry Simons
September 10, 2009

How ironic that Alex Jones’ next film [due for release on October 21, 2009] is titled, “The Fall of the Republic: The Presidency of Barack Obama”. In light of recent events at Jones’ two most popular websites, Prison Planet and Infowars, Jones should re-title it, “The Fall of Alex Jones: The End of Free Speech”.

As I informed my readers yesterday, the fallout from the damage Alex Jones has caused, due to his “big announcement” of Charlie Sheen writing a mock interview for President Obama [that never actually took place], has reached unprecedented levels at Prison Planet and Infowars.

The truth of the matter is, we may never know how catastrophic the damage really is since Alex Jones has ended free speech on his websites. A listener of his radio show commented yesterday on one of only two [of the usual approximately 35-40 stories that display daily on the front page] remaining stories in which people could still post comments, that the reason Jones disabled the comment threads is because of a bandwidth issue.

The listener/commenter said that Jones told his listeners on his radio show that he spends roughly $25,000-$30,000 a month on bandwidth alone, and that the traffic on the comment threads [to the Charlie Sheen story] was getting so hammered that it was using too much bandwidth; so Jones had to disable it.

Many commenters cried, “BULLSHIT!” and told Jones that it’s not a bandwidth issue at all, it’s because the comment boards were getting flooded with very negative and nasty comments directed at Jones for his fake Charlie Sheen story and for shutting down the commenting boards.

One commenter, named “The Inquisitor”, said:

“Alex states during the show that his servers shut down and had to cut off comments due to lack of bandwidth….bullshit I say…total bullshit.”The Inquisitor” said in another post:

“He stated that his servers went down from the inflow from the Sheen story and that he pays $25,000-$30,000 a month on bandwidth, but the flow was so heavy that he had to shut down the comments section.”

The commenters are correct. As I reported yesterday, Prison Planet closed the comment threads at 9:30 a.m. [I have no idea what time zone that is. I am only referring to the very time displayed on the actual site] When I was on the site at roughly 9 a.m., 95% of the comments were very negative and personal toward Jones and already, even at that early hour, there were over 200 comments.

When I went back on the site at 2 a.m., there were only 225 comments. I discovered it was because all the negative comments directed at Jones for pulling this ridiculous stunt were removed. Most comments were now positive, saying Sheen was a hero and he did a great job. The ironic thing is, the positive comments indicated that the people had not read the disclaimer at the bottom of Sheen’s mock interview, stating that the “interview hasn’t actually happened…yet”.

So, one question is obvious: If it was an issue of bandwidth [as Jones claimed it was], why weren’t the scores of negative comments that I personally saw at 9 a.m. still there since the Prison Planet moderators disabled commenting at 9:30 a.m.?

If the moderators simply just ended commenting at 9:30 a.m., it stands to reason that all comments made prior to 9:30 a.m. would still be there. But, that wasn’t the case. When I went on the site at 2 a.m. the next day, nearly every negative comment directed at Jones himself was gone and the majority of negative comments only centered on reminding those who left positive comments about the Sheen story that they had missed reading the disclaimer.

Another reason to doubt the "bandwidth card" that Jones is playing is the fact that yesterday, September 9, roughly 40 new stories were posted and 5 of those stories [here, here, here, here and here] featured videos in the story. If Prison Planet was short on bandwidth, how could they post 40 more stories and 5 videos?

The Inquisitor” said this yesterday:

“I see the comments sections are still turned off. Yet more articles being posted. Thank God for saving the bandwidth. Soon this topic will vanish into the archives. Wonder what kind of rhetoric Alex will use to save his ass on this one. So far anyone that doesn’t like the Sheen bit is co-intel-pro. Let us see what other labels he has for free thinking free speakers.”

Others were even more angry at Jones. “woftam-hunter” said this:

“Wups slight mistake :
Just before
AJ the ASS-WIPE
What’s with the comments OFF on majority of articles
Scared are we: ???? Government got your tongue ???
Where is the supposed great leader of free speech ????????
The supposed AJ the mouth:
You caved in didn’t you.
You fucking coward:!!
Looks like your true colors` are showing now:
AJ the ASS-Wipe
It’s all boiled down to money: the very thing that has fucked the world has finally Fucked you.
Your greed for the shit has, turned you into one of the animals that lie, and deceive us. How could any sane person ever trust an ass-wipe like you again?
TRAITOR”


Joe” said this:

“I find it absolutely hilarious that he has fallen on his sword and acted just like the MSM he loves to blast. Blinded by celebrity worship, just like the rest of America!
BREAKING NEWS READERS: Tune in Tuesday! I’m going to LIE to you and MISLEAD you!
Wow. Alex, face the public you coward. No one believes this bandwidth bull. If you don’t come clean, you are doomed. Face it. You totally miscalculated. Now you are being a complete tool. Its actually surprising.”


The comments I have posted seem to be coming from genuine Alex Jones supporters who are incredibly angry right now, rather than from the anti-Alex Jones trolls who occasionally frequent the comment boards.

Even radio talk show host [and colleague of Jones], George Noory, who hosts the popular Coast to Coast with George Noory, was sickened by Jones’ stunt. Here’s the clip of Noory talking about it



Jones tells Noory in the above clip, “We should have had a more detailed disclaimer at the top instead of the bottom.” [referring to the Editor’s Note by Sheen that said: “What you have just read didn’t actually happen… yet”], but what is interesting is that, as of right this minute as I type, the disclaimer is still at the bottom of the interview. Jones called the disclaimer issue a “glitch” and “confusion”, yet the disclaimer still remains in the exact same spot it was originally.

Also, Jones apologized on Noory’s show, yet Jones couldn’t muster the strength or decency to issue an apology on his own website, but rather on someone else's show. It also appeared as if Noory was justifying for Jones, but Noory or Jones did not say one word about the censorship on Jones’ sites.

The most amazing aspect of this whole censorship issue at Prison Planet and Infowars is that Jones has always claimed to be the champion of free speech and has even been angered in the past about being the victim of censorship.

Just this past May, Prison Planet did numerous stories here and here, of Alex Jones and his supporters being angry when YouTube shut down The Alex Jones Channel on the popular video viewing site.

In a story about the YouTube censorship from May 4, writer Paul Joseph Watson said, “YouTube, the emerging Hulu-ized version, has no use for Alex Jones and has specifically targeted him because his videos invariably draw a large (in the millions) number of people.” I find this point interesting, because there can be no doubt that it is this same “large (in the millions) number of people” who are now angry at Jones and expressing their outrage and dissent at this ridiculous Charlie Sheen story and for now being silenced themselves. This is exactly the reason why Jones and his website moderators have shut down the message boards.

Here comes the most amazing part of this story: After Jones had claimed that bandwidth was the reason why the comment boards were shut down [despite the fact that nobody believes it and it has been thoroughly debunked], I go to Prison Planet today and see that under each story, it no longer says “No Comments”, but now says “No comments yet, your thoughts are welcome.”

Everything back to normal at Prison Planet? Hardly. Before this whole Charlie Sheen incident happened, that’s what it used to say when no one had left a comment yet: “No comments yet, your thoughts are welcome.” But there’s now a catch. When you click on the story to post a comment, it says “You must be logged in to post a comment.” Just when you think it has appeared that Jones has restored comment posting again, he hasn’t, or at least, not without a catch. See pic below



Now, readers have to LOGIN to post a comment. But, that’s not all. When you click the words “logged in”, it takes you to a page that looks like this:



So, basically, you now have to have a Word Press account to comment on Prison Planet. Unbelievable. Brought to you from the “champion” of free speech himself; Alex Jones.

The ironic thing is, this action will, no doubt, increase the already insurmountable anger that is already aimed at Jones by his supporters. Dissenters will also increase in number as well. Jones will lose many supporters completely. Those who do not completely abandon him will never fully trust him again. Very few will sit back and blindly continue to follow him and be gatekeepers for him. No matter what outcome emerges from this, one thing is for certain: Things will never be the same again with Alex Jones and his support base. We may be witnessing the fall of Alex Jones.

I’ve already seen others say on Prison Planet and other blogs, “where will we get our news now?” and some have suggested starting their own blogs/sites. It seems Jones has hit an iceberg and many are jumping ship before it completely sinks and takes them under.

There are three things that have disappeared in the last 3 days: Alex Jones’ credibility, many of his supporters and free speech on his websites.

The only question that remains is: Which, if any, can be restored?

UPDATE:

It appeared that Prison Planet had lifted the ban on commenting because now under many of the stories, it actually says people have posted comments….BUT when I just went and posted a comment on one of the stories, I saw this: (click to enlarge)



It now says “Your comment is awaiting moderation”. Can you believe this shit? Alex Jones is now MODERATING comments at his sites!! This explains why there are no negative comments under the stories where comments are posted at right now. This is also confirms that Jones lied when he claimed the comment restriction was a bandwidth issue. If comments are allowed now [even by moderation] that proves lack of bandwidth was not the issue.

What in the holy hell is happening at Prison Planet? Is it being taken over by Nazis?

UPDATE #2

My above comment was REJECTED. Notice my above comment posted at 1:28 p.m. is GONE and I posted a new one at 2:00 p.m. See here (click to enlarge)



UPDATE #3

It appears something very interesting is going on at Prison Planet. I just had a friend of mine send 2 different messages under 2 different screen names under 2 different stories on PP [and by the way, they are only allowing comments now on some stories, not all of them; all of the Charlie Sheen stories are still fully restricted...you can't comment at all on those]. He said the comments appeared on the screen instantaneously but after clicking refresh a few seconds later, the comments were gone.

What is interesting is that the comments did not violate any of the PP policies, but the comments were damning to the censorship game they are playing. One comment that was posted said "Still no free speech here?", and the other was a link to this story on my site, both of which are comments that PP mods would not want others to see.

They are either running a very tight ship over at PP and are having the mods work a lot of overtime, or they are restricting comments by IP address after the first comment they don't like. Either way, can you say "Joseph Goebbels?"

UPDATE #4

As I showed earlier [above with picture], Prison Planet has changed to Word Press for their commenting feature. I personally have been blocked from commenting by someone with a wordpress.com blog in the recent past, so I know for a fact that with the wordpress commenting system, you can be banned from posting, no matter what screen name you use. This is apparently what Prison Planet has done.

For anyone who has been to Prison Planet recently, you may see under each story that people are commenting and all may seem back to normal. It's not. They are still blocking you [if they don't approve of what you're saying]. I have posted 5 comments tonight on PP. The comment appears right away, but after refreshing the screen, the comment is gone. I'm hoping not many are being fooled by this at PP.

I'm now convinced, that during this whole "bandwidth/no comment" downtime, Prison Planet was actually switching commenting systems from what they had previously to wordpress, a commenting system that allows users to be deleted by IP address and not requiring the web host to inform the user they have been banned.

Free speech.....DEAD at Prison Planet

21 comments:

the_last_name_left said...

Free speech.....DEAD at Prison Planet

When was it ever really alive?

On the other hand, they've long allowed some really wild extremism to survive the comment moderation. What they've allowed to stand and what they've deleted is quite telling. They allow some crazy stuff to stand whilst they delete relatively tepid criticism.

Isn't it a bit odd that the issue about censorship arises over criticism of the Charlie Sheen stunt rather than over some of the extremism that prisonplanet has previously let flourish? Odd the way the issue should arise as it has over Charlie Sheen.

SFAIK the comments have always been moderated to a degree. I have been banned from prisonplanet forum by IP address for years, for example. I only posted a couple of times, and then was seemingly life-banned by IP address. Nice way to handle a bit of criticism, I thought.

So, whilst I'm not surprised to see something like this happen, it's astonishing to actually see Prisonplanet react so very badly to a barrage of criticism and thereby confound their own folly.

Awwww. Happy days. :)

I think you're premature with "the fall" of Alex Jones, though. Put a question mark and it'd be fine.

You're right to point to Alex's stance on 'freespeech' - about Pastor Anderson for example. According to Jones, Anderson has a right to wish Obama dead blah blah blah but Jones himself can't withstand criticism on his own website. Awww.

Vanity?

Calling for a new set of Nuremburg Laws is fine, but don't criticise Prisonplanet and Alex Jones or we'll shut the website down!!!

One might hope this would make Alex a little more circumspect in his automatic denunciation of the media who undertake 'censorship'. How can ALex stand there and denounce censorship?

But it seems the 'censorship' at Prisonplanet at the moment was motivated by nothing more than vanity originally - and perhaps profit - rather than an effort to denounce violent, racist, religious extremism which seemingly gets a free pass usually.

Weird.

Real Truth Online said...

no, ims ticking with "the fall" with no question mark, because if Alex Jones is pissing on free speech, he's done.

Real Truth Online said...

"On the other hand, they've long allowed some really wild extremism to survive the comment moderation. What they've allowed to stand and what they've deleted is quite telling. They allow some crazy stuff to stand whilst they delete relatively tepid criticism."

You are EXACTLY right!

By the way, what the hell is SFAIK?

socrates said...

I'm surprised you don't know that one. TLNL was saying as fas as I know, maybe it should be afaik. I've had trouble with those net abbreviations. iirc- if i recall correctly. But you can google junk like that and usually get the answer. I feel bad for people like Larry who have been let down by this. It's happened to me at a number of other places. Just remember, Alex doesn't own the content. So if he has posted good stuff, yet now it appears tarnished by its association to Alex Jones, don't worry about it. The internet isn't taken seriously anyway. That seems to have been the game plan the whole way, as in the idea of strawmen created. There was a huge hoax put out by Brett Kimberlin and Larisa Alexandrovna about Michael Connell being threatened by Karl Rove, and then he died in a small aircraft accident, and then the predictable astroturf came out that he was suicided. I think there is election fraud, but charlatans coming up with hoaxes does no good in getting the story into the mainstream. This could be muddy the waters 101, or it could be about trying to make a buck off of conspiro-tainment, or both. I know for sure I could do their jobs better than they do. If I was Alex, I wouldn't have censored anything, wouldn't have made up lies about bandwidth problems, etc.. He should have said they messed up and forgot to put the disclaimer in, like a War of the Worlds situation, if you remember the thing from wayback where people actually believed we were being invaded by aliens. Jones has made this situation much worse than it had to be. Now it is clear he censors. It is clear he is worried about perception. If he didn't do anything wrong, then he wouldn't have shut the comments off. Come on, he's making it seem like he had some big scoop and the extra traffic threw the website off. Brad Friedman did the same thing with the Clint Curtis story. It's a good way to have an excuse to shut down any comments which would shine some light. And you two are quite correct that nonsense doesn't get censored, but legitimate questions by yourselves do. I spoke with a semi-famous freelance reporter for a few hours about the Connell story and some other stuff. He explained that the media would do a story if election fraud through black box voting could be proven, but that since the story was about a hoax, they wouldn't touch it. I believe the so-called "alternative" internet is rigged. Daily Kos is rigged. Democratic Underground is rigged. Prison Planet and Rivero's WRH are rigged. We're just being gamed. I think our only hope is to create pockets of awareness and eventually someday the truth will emerge about internet fakery.

the_last_name_left said...

I think it's worth realising a little 'censorship' can be a good thing - or at least an understandable thing. For example, racism or incitements to violence in comments are understandably frowned upon. What could possibly be lost from discussion by removing such sentiment? Not much?

But PrisonPlanet seems to have long-allowed a lot of that stuff to be posted ....nasty horrible violent homicidal expression.

Presumably they justified it as 'freespeech'. Hmmm - well, ok.

But then they get arsey about a bit of criticism over the Sheen affair.

Violence, homophobia, racism and fascism was tolerated in the comments - but criticism of a publicity stunt is going too far?

Shocking.

It's easy for Alex or anyone to complain about 'censorship'. It can be a cheap and easy shot. Like the poster campaign involving spamming the USA with the damn joker picture of Obama. That was designed to get a hostile reaction - so Alex could shout about "censorship" and how freedom-of-expression was being crushed by the Obama-Nazis etc etc. So the Obama-poster spamming of the entire USA and internet was endorsed by Prisonplanet - but spam ye not the prisonplanet forum with a bit of personal criticism of Alex Jones! That's beyond the pale!

Hopefully after this malarkey both Alex and his audience will be more understanding about what can and can't be said, both in the mainstream and on so-called alternative media.

And that it simply isn't true that only 'the mainstream media' censors. In many ways the mainstream seems more tolerant than the alternatives tbh, probably a reflection of their public service role.

What seems tolerated most in the self-styled 'alternative media' is intolerance. Like at Prisonplanet comment threads. Intolerance such as Pastor Andersons murderous homophobia was tolerated but criticism of the Sheen affair is not. That's evidence of a very odd sort of value system. Hopefully he won't feel so entitled to be so damned preachy about the "evils" of the mainstream.

And what of this PrisonPlanet campaign with Reverend Pike to oppose the "hate crime law"? People must be free to say whatever they like about homosexuals, for example, but they're not allowed to criticise Alex Jones' crass media stunt? Errrr - sure.....that's a bit of a one-way street isn't it? Well, there you go - that's Alex Jones' meaning of "freedom" - the liberty to incite murder of homosexuals, presidents and jews even as he shuts down his comment boards over some (well-deserved) personal criticism.

People will argue it's his right to do as he wishes - it's his property, his gig, and all that. But then why isn't it Time Magazine's right to do the same? Or Murdoch's? Popular Mechanic? Google? If all these PRIVATE institutions are, according to Alex supposed to be obligated by duty to tell "the truth" and abstain from the least sort of censorship and political correctness then why isn't Jones' PrisonPlanet?

And if Jones finds a little personal criticism over Sheen so threatening as to require shutting off all comments - then how are we to respect his insistence that we simply can't interfere with the rights of people such as Pastor Anderson, Reverend Pike, Willis Carto.

Anyway, a lot of people at PP will just think the Obama-Nazi arm of the NWO did it to shut down the Sheen info-bomb. :D

I still think DesertPeace is the best censorship place - they ban you but don't tell you about it. They only feed banned comments back to the IP address of the person making the comments. Nobody else gets to see the banned comments, but everything looks normal to the banned user. sneaky. :D

Larry said...

The only censorship I really administer is when people are just trying to be provocateurs and not really trying to say something of substance---just like my disclaimer says

the_last_name_left said...

But that's too hazy - it can mean anything you want it to mean - so it's an excuse to do whatever you like.

You are allowed to do anything you want - you can delete anything you like. If you want to justify it to yourself by denouncing the person as "a provocateur" and hence deserving of 'censorship', well.......that's pretty lame imo.

Better to just say you'll get rid of anything you feel like?

How can you tell what counts as provocateuring? It's too slippery a word to allow its use as justification for "censorship".

Racism, anti-semitism, homophobia and fascism would be better grounds for censorship than provocateuring?

Use of foul language and a horrible attitude would be more definite and reasonable than "provocateuring"?

;)

"Troll" and other such terms can be applied to anyone, regardless of the political or moral content. It's a useless term, really, and not one worthy of use as a reason for censorship.

Posting spam and nonsense could reasonably fall into "Troll" category perhaps, but otherwise it doesn't hold enough strength to justify censorship etc. It just reflects the position of the person shouting "Troll" - or "provocateur".

And what's wrong with people sailing around the blogosphere and happening on a place and "provoking" it?

That's a good thing?

Alex Jones' position right now is one of having explicitly made clear to his audience that he censors even well-deserved criticism of himself.

Considering what he had previously allowed to stand, and what he'd delete, such censorship is striking for its audacity and pettiness, but definitely not unexpected.

Nothing changed about ALex Jones and Prisonplanet - what changed was the perceptions of him within his audience. The audience realised something? They changed - not AJ and PP.

Does it show that Prisonplanet failed to live up to it's own ideal of "freedom of speech", or does it show that Alex and his audience have an unrealistic expectation for what "freedom of speech" means? Because PP and its audience love to criticise the mainstream, or anyone, for 'opposing freedom of speech' - right? And yet, Alex and PP censor people all the time, and we're talking about whether it's legitimate to "censor" people simply because they're "provocateurs" or "racists", or whatever.

the_last_name_left said...

So surely the criticism of the mainstream consisting of "you censoring bastards" is unjust - at least insofar as we all seem to live in denial of own efforts at "censorship".

Rather than only criticise Alex Jones for having failed to live up to this idealised sense of "freedom of speech", maybe people should reassess their own conception of what "freedom of speech" realistically means?

A large part of it rests on power of property - if someone has a lot of property they have more freedom of speech. The same power of ownership applies as much to Murdoch's media empire as it does to Alex Jones'. It's only different in scale - the same principles of private property rights are at work though.

That's how private property is related to tyranny and oligarchy etc. Property = rights = power. Property is theft - of power.

But this blog is your "property" - so you can do what you like? That's your right - granted by property.

But so can Alex Jones do as he likes - it's his property - it's his right?

But aren't we always told private property leads to freedom, democracy, freespeech and all that?

Alex is hard-core Ron Paul supporter - seemingly committed to Paul's ultra neo-liberalism.

And yet here is Alex proving that his pro free-marketeering scheme called PrisonPlanet somehow fails to ensure it provides "freedom of speech".

How did "private property" ensure Alex Jones told the truth?

How did private property prevent Alex Jones from censoring and distorting the sentiment of the comments at PP?

It didn't - private property gave Alex Jones the power to censor criticism of his cynical manipulation of his own audience.

On that note - such manipulation of the audience is nothing new to Jones: astonishingly PP used to have a webpage admitting they "disguised adverts as news headlines". Unsurprisingly they changed the page. Nevertheless, how revealing of their attitude to their own audience - the hallowed "truthseekers" and patriots" and blah blah blah?

What a disgusting disrespect for their audience.

So, no surprise to see the latest episode, astonishing though it is. :D

Blah blah woof woof.

Larry said...

Im a hard core Ron Paul supporter too----and Ive asked this before---how is Ron Paul a NEW liberal? Youve never answered that.

I disagree with you that "How can you tell what counts as provocateuring? It's too slippery a word to allow its use as justification for "censorship"."

I think any reasonble human being can decipher what contitutes a blatant provocational statement as opposed to a comment that actually has substance. I dont buy your "it can be any statement you want it to be"----bullshit.

A provocational statement is aimed at not getting to the truth--its just meant to provoke and "get one's goat" and not offer anything useful to a debate. A lot of things you said (above) I didnt agree with but I allowed them. Statements like "Youre a nut" is provoking. It has no purpose or aim at getting to the truth. Are you saying theres no difference in your comments above and the statement "youre a nut"?

Larry said...

By the way, PP deleted ALL 21 of my articles from their database. Can you fucking believe that? Because I criticized them, then I guess all my past articles are no good now since I put PP under the EXACT same scrutiny of the people I did my articles about.

In a nutshell, PP can dish it out, but they cant take it. Also interesting is that just about everytime there's a hit piece done against PP, they do an article about it on their site and refute it. Yet, they did NO stories on my hit pieces....I wonder why??

I even emailed PP's webmaster and head writer Paul Watson and told him that if he could refute my stories and PROVE they are wrong, I would remove the stories from my site (and Iv never removed a story, so I dont take that lightly)---guess what? I've not heard a PEEP from him. Hmmmmm.

Larry said...

Because I have INTEGRITY and dont kiss ANYONE'S ASS, then Im a bad guy and I get deleted and censored. I would undertand PP's anger at me IF THEY COULD REFUTE ME and prove me WRONG, but they havent and it looks like they are not even interested in it. It's like they're saying to me, "You are a traitor to Alex Jones. Even though he DID lie and was wrong, you didnt stick by his side and defend him, so you are ostracized pal." How dare me criticize and expose the great Alex Jones!! How dare me!

the_last_name_left said...

Well, yeah - how dare you!

Crazy, isn't it? You're supposed to "think for yourself" - but as soon as you do - you're history.

Like in 1984 - you become an unperson. :)

That's the sort of thing that motivated me to speak about Prisonplanet and Alex Jones.

They are dishonest. And they like to throw the libel rulebook around too.

I find that amusing - mr small government Alex Jones likes to threaten to sue for libel. Using the power of the state - of law - of course. (What if it takes a big state to implement the constitution and your right to sue for libel, Mr Jones?)

But who have Jones + co ever actually sued? No-one?

They could have sued me if what i have said was untrue.

They haven't sued me. I don't suppose they notice.

I am just banned from making comments, and banned from the prisonplanet forum by IP address - as has been the case for at least 2 years. Maybe more. :D

Larry: how is Ron Paul a NEW liberal?

Well, neo-liberal is just the term for that sort of economics. Liberal was classical economics (Adam Smith, Ricardo?)- and the new, ultra form is called neo-liberal (hayek, mises - austrian/chicago school). I suppose they basically dispense with Adam Smith's suspicion of capitalism and markets - otherwise it's much the same - only more so?

Free-markets........ultra de-regulation........anarcho capitalism?

I don't really dig anarcho-capitalism. The adherents always look to me like capitalists ready to thieve property behind their banner of "liberty".

But anyway - Ron Paul is radical free marketeer ie neo-liberal.

Buy into that, and you really shouldn't be complaining about jobs going to where the wages and work conditions are at the lowest and cheapest level. Buy into neo-liberalism and that's where all the jobs should go?

Until wages worldwide are levelled - manufacture will always move to where labour and conditions are lowest. Won't it?

Allowing those sorts of rules to play out - without any intervention - is the neo-liberal ideal. I think. Markets know best......and better to leave them alone.

the_last_name_left said...

Of course - letting things play out on there own will lead to some "organic" conclusion......or equilibrium of crises perhaps. But.......is that really the best we can do? Just leave all the answers to the mysticism of "market forces"?

Karl Marx supported free trade in so far as he supported anything which led towards liberation. Or at least I think so. International free trade is much better and progressive than national protectionism.

And that's a very much underplayed aspect to Ron Paul's agenda. He tends to play to the Nationalist wing, rather than the internationalist one. He doesn't like to make clear that his view is internationalist - if it is.

Consider the interview he did where he said american workers were overpaid, especially car-workers in Michigan. That was so underplayed they've deleted every reference to it online.

But of course Ron Paul thinks americans are overpaid - he's a real free-marketeer, capitalist - neo-liberal - dude.

But he has a problem - proper free-marketeers are internationalist, not nationalist, as Paul seems to be.

So how can he sell the implications of the market to americans when it means lowering wages, export of jobs and capital, loss of skills and closures of factories......?

That's what it means. Free-market means american wages are up against chinese wages. Or Phillippine wages. Or Indian wages. Whatever.

A lot of Ron Paul's support is actually against all that stuff. They don't want all that stuff? Job exports, lower wages, etc.

To me, Ron Paul seems a nationalist before he's a free-marketeer neo-liberal. That seems to be his appeal, at least? Nationalist rather than internationalist free-marketeer?

I think that's contradictory. He's supposed to be a radical free-trader but he's appealing to Nationalists.

Is he going to open America to foreign competition? You are going to be able to buy Indian manufactured cars? Canadian wood? Chinese everything else. How is Ron Paul going to stand in the way of all that? And as a free-trader, he really should be supporting all that? As he does, perhaps, but it's something he's understandably not ever said much about on the record. "Workers are paid too much - factories need to close." That's the reality of what he's saying.

But like I say - Marx thought free-trade was an improvement along the way towards genuine emancipation. So hay ho - way to go.

But Ron Paul and his neo-libs are loons imo. I don't like Ron Paul's dishonesty either. Many in his audience haven't the slightest idea that Ron Paul means a severe and very prolonged tightening of belts for most people, especially the poorest. And export of jobs. And, if they bring the army home, as RP promised to do (?) - there will be a loss to american economy. What do people think those troops have been doing? Nothing? LOL. Those troops have been securing "the american way" - and that simply must have a huge intangible contribution to american trade. Paid for by the public too. Such darlings.

the_last_name_left said...

It's like they're saying to me, "You are a traitor to Alex Jones. Even though he DID lie and was wrong, you didnt stick by his side and defend him, so you are ostracized pal."

And who cares about people like that?

It's just not very nice, at all.

They're bastards.

Fall of Alex Jones said...

Alex is a fraud just like the 9/11 Commission Report.

Truth needs no sensationalism.
Truth tolerates no lies.
Truth includes no hoaxes.

Those who do not disavow this phony are but sheep of a different shear.

He is branding the truth movement as nutjobs and will continue if everyone lets him. He must be loudly and publicly disavowed to maintain credibility.

Otherwise, the Truth Movement will rightly be viewed as identity seeking and fake concern. Very cool.

Visit http://FallOfAlexJones.com for one response to his latest hoax.

rob said...

this asshole last name keeps acting like a dork proving you right again. he refute nothing and debunks nothing, hes a nothing. he posts the same shit over and over again. talks about free speach but larry youve made him use comment moderation. seig heil last name left he makes jizzz eerrrr jasv look like a saint. actions speak louder than words and youve proved your self and he stilll cant get his blog over 100 hits.

Anonymous said...

we all know that alex doesnt run his two sites but he is responsible for them. hes going have to come out and strighten this mess out.

Anonymous said...

Alex Jones Exposed

http://alexjonesexposed.info

Деян Кривошеенко said...

Whats up, i just watch videos on youtube and i found one very funny animation story, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IR9ncTrv8k click
and you will be positve all day!

Utah said...

Hey there, we have a English course for Aircraft Mechanics
focuses on carrying out technical tasks related to aircraft maintenance,
where the use of English is essential. Based on aircraft maintenance manual,
the course aims to train mechanics to interpret technical nature of texts in up to two months.

Utah said...

Hey there, the seed for Normative was planted when two friends,
the mathematics student Kristian Rönn,
and the urban planner Robin Undall-Behrend,
decided that they wanted to dedicate their career on doing the most good.