Saturday, September 5, 2009

Alex Jones continues to endorse Pastor Steve Anderson [who prayed for Obama’s death]; both play the Bill O’ Reilly “out of context” card


Jones: I’ve watched a few of his sermons, he’s a listener of the show…and I agree with what I saw

by Larry Simons
September 5, 2009

Last month, I mentioned, in my article about Pastor Steve Anderson, that if Alex Jones continued his association with Anderson, I would be “very concerned”. Not only has Jones continued his association with the Pastor [who prayed for the death of Obama and called for homosexuals to be executed in sermons from January 18 and August 16 of this year], but Jones openly endorses Anderson’s sermons.

Jones began his segment with Anderson yesterday on his radio show by saying, “For the rest of the hour, we are joined by Pastor Steve Anderson, who I really admire.” Jones then said:

“I’ve watched a few of his sermons, he’s a listener of the show…and I agree with what I saw. I understand what he said biblically, and I understand God’s judgement…and I’ve even said on air I hope that CPS kidnappers and government child molesters, when they’re always getting caught, I hope God will deal with them. Because at a very innate, instinctive and spiritual level, my instincts are, when somebody threatens me, or somebody, uh, says they’re…wanna hurt me or my family, ya know, I innately want to crush them.”

Jones agrees with Anderson biblically, despite the fact that according to Anderson’s own church website, it states that Pastor Anderson holds no college degree but has well over 100 chapters of the Bible committed to memory, including almost half of the New Testament.” Bible memorization is now what constitutes today's Bible scholar? Bible memorization teaches one about church history, the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek languages or Biblical customs? Does Jones also agree with Anderson that all homosexuals deserve the death penalty? Does Jones believe Bible colleges are evil [as Anderson does]?

It also states on Anderson’s church website that “We reject the teaching of Calvinism and believe that God wants everyone to be saved.” Everyone except Barack Obama, in whom he says God hates and in whom Anderson wants in hell. On his church website it also states “We oppose worldliness, modernism, formalism, and liberalism.” Then why does he drive a car? Why does he own suits? Why does he preach from a church building? [After all, Jesus said that the “church” was PEOPLE, not a building]

Listen to the interview





Jones then says, “But, the way the media can edit things together…like I’m always calling for non-violence unless it’s to defend yourself…” Jones begins to tell his listeners how often the media and others, like Dr. John Gartner of Psychology Today, attempt to associate Jones’ ideologies with violent behavior in order to set him up, in which Jones is 100% correct [but let me add that Jones doesn't help his credibility at all by associating with nutballs like Steve Anderson].

Then Jones says, “We need to be aware of how this [Anderson’s own words] is being manipulated.” Then Jones begins to talk about Rick Sanchez [although Jones never says Sanchez’ name] of CNN, but a few seconds after Jones begins talking about him, you can see the edit in the clip and it picks up [who knows how many minutes later?] during a discussion on how it is perfectly OK for corrupt people in government to poison the water and use eugenics to wipe out the population, but [as Jones says] “if you want God to punish people that are killing millions of babies, you’re bad.”

I am not certain why the aforementioned clip is edited, but I find it ironic that Jones had just finished telling his listeners, “But the way the media can edit things together….” And then his clip is edited. Here is the CNN clip with Rick Sanchez that Jones is referring to.



I have supported Alex Jones for years and years and I have defended Jones on issues again and again, but the line is drawn here. I watched the entire Rick Sanchez clip (above) and I found nothing wrong with the segment. None of the quotes and excerpts from Anderson were taken out of context. If anyone disagrees with my deduction, here is my story on Anderson from last month, and here is Anderson’s sermon in its entirety.



Jones asks Anderson what he said in full in his “Why I Hate Barack Obama” sermon from August 16. Anderson says this:

“Basically, here’s what the whole sermon was about. Here’s what all my statements were about. God is a God of justice. God is a God of ‘whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap. And, you know, Obama, and other presidents before him have been guilty of murder, have been guilty of using my tax dollars to fund abortions in America and abroad, infanticide, forced sterilizations, murder, all these horrible things, and I said that he should reap what he’s sown. You know, I don’t understand why this is even such a big news story. You can pick up the Bible in any Dollar Tree across America, and yet people are shocked that somebody’s actually preaching what the Bible says which is that murderers should be tried and executed.”

First of all loon-ball, what you said [above] is not all you said in your sermon. You said these words:

“And I’m gonna tell you something, I HATE Barack Obama. You say ‘well you just mean you don’t like what he stands for’. No, I hate the person. ‘No, wait, you mean you just don’t like his politics’, No, I hate HIM. Now I’m going to prove this from the Bible tonight why I should hate Barack Obama, why God wants me to hate Barack Obama, why God hates Barack Obama!”

and

“Nope. I'm not gonna pray for his good. I'm going to pray that he dies and goes to hell. When I go to bed tonight, that's what I'm going to pray. And you say, 'Are you just saying that?' No. When I go to bed tonight, Steven L. Anderson is going to pray for Barack Obama to die and go to hell.”

Anderson mentions “Obama and other presidents before him have been guilty of murder”, yet his sermon was not titled, “Why I Hate All Presidents That Have Committed Murder”. According to Charles Manson prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi, George W. Bush is guilty of approximately 1,010,000 murders stemming from the Iraq/Afghanistan wars and troop deaths combined. Where’s any mention of Bush being prayed for to “die and go to hell?”

Anderson doesn’t understand why this is a big news story? He makes videos of his beating in April by the border patrol and wants the whole world to see his beaten face, but when it comes to standing in front of his congregation and openly praying for God to make sure the President dies and goes to hell, that’s insignificant. And by the way, dickhead, if you was “preaching what the Bible says” you would be praying for Obama to change and do what is right and that he might be in heaven one day. Where in the entire Bible does it tell us to pray for the deaths of people and wish they went to hell?

Anderson attempts to water-down what he actually said by saying, “Praying is the exact opposite of taking things into your own hands. It’s praying that God will step in and carry out justice on the evil people who are destroying our country.” Nice try Steve, but the Bible calls for all men to be saved. That leaves no room for prayers for people to die and go to hell. You never, ever said, “IF Obama continues to do wicked things, I hope he dies and goes to hell”, you said, “I hope he dies and goes to hell now.” That sounds a hell of a lot like judging to me!

Let me just emphasize my biggest issue with this whole story. Does Anderson have the right to say he wants Obama to die and go to hell? Of course. That’s called freedom of speech. Should he say it out loud in an open forum in front of people [especially church people]? Obviously not. There’s a fine line between freedom of speech and having the piss-poor judgement and complete lack of common sense to openly say damning and threatening things in front of others.

According to Anderson’s philosophy, I could stand behind his pulpit and say, “I hope someone kills Steve Anderson tonight. I am praying for his death, and when he dies, I hope he goes to hell.” Anderson should have no problem with me saying that in his church, according to his own beliefs. I bet a million dollars if I actually did say those words in his church, he would grab his cell phone, record me saying it and immediately call the police.

The hypocrisy of Anderson is mind-boggling. In April, he went apeshit over being beaten by border patrol agents and cried for justice to be done. I guess Anderson never thought about the fact that his beating could have been the result of someone praying that he would get the shit beat out of him. What if someone prayed to God the night before his arrest that border patrol agents stopped him for a petty reason, tazed him and then killed him? According to Anderson’s view of God and prayer, his ordeal with the border patrol agents shouldn’t have struck him as bizarre. Why didn’t he see it as a divine plan? After all, God may have been granting the wishes of another individual who thinks Steve Anderson is evil. Where am I wrong?

Anderson then claims there are verses in the Bible in which people have prayed for the deaths of others. When Jones asks Anderson, “Why don’t you go over a few of those?”, Anderson starts with the words of David in Psalm 55:15 which states, “Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them. As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.”

What numbnuts doesn’t tell Alex Jones or his congregation is that, first of all, not only does Jesus say in the New Testament we are to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:39), but that whenever Jesus spoke of “loving one’s neighbor” as themselves, he was actually quoting Old Testament law (Leviticus 19:18). This invalidates Anderson's attempt at creating the illusion that the Old Testament is littered with imprecatory passages, thus making the Old Testament appear to be the "God obliterates everything he hates and does not forgive" section and the New Testament the "Jesus loves and forgives everyone" section.

Jesus also spoke of loving one’s enemy as well, and just like loving one’s neighbor, loving enemies was also Old Testament law. Exodus 23:4-5 states, “If you come across your enemy's ox or donkey wandering away, you shall surely return it to him. If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; you shall surely help him with it.” But why would Anderson give a rats ass about the background of scripture? This is the same man who believes the King James Version of the Bible is directly from God himself.

Another thing Anderson conveniently omits is the fact that on countless occasions in the Bible, David actually prayed for and performed acts of kindness to the very people who he considered his enemies (see 1 Samuel 24 and 26 and Psalm 109:4-5). Passages like the ones Anderson reads for Jones are known as “imprecatory” Psalms. “Imprecate” means to invoke evil upon, or curse. The imprecations in the Bible were never meant to be interpreted as personal vendettas but simply as prayers that God’s righteousness be revealed on Earth. This was NOT the same manner in which Anderson prayed for Obama. Let’s examine again what Anderson said, shall we?

“And I’m gonna tell you something, I HATE Barack Obama. You say ‘well you just mean you don’t like what he stands for’. No, I hate the person. ‘No, wait, you mean you just don’t like his politics’, No, I hate HIM. Now I’m going to prove this from the Bible tonight why I should hate Barack Obama, why God wants me to hate Barack Obama, why God hates Barack Obama!”

“Nope. I'm not gonna pray for his good. I'm going to pray that he dies and goes to hell. When I go to bed tonight, that's what I'm going to pray. And you say, 'Are you just saying that?' No. When I go to bed tonight, Steven L. Anderson is going to pray for Barack Obama to die and go to hell.”

Sounds like a personal vendetta to me! The title of his sermon was “Why I Hate Barack Obama!” How can that be any more of a personal vendetta? The title was not, “Why I Hate Sin”, or “Why I Hate Evil Men”, was it?

Even if Barack Obama was never mentioned by name in Anderson’s sermons, why didn’t he once ever say, “God hates sin. God wants evil to be punished. But, God desires every man be saved and we are to love our enemies?" After all, in 2 Peter 3:9, it speaks of God, “not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” Did Anderson ever quote this verse in any of his sermons about Obama? I can answer that for you, NOPE. But, Anderson wants us all to believe that his personal calls for Obama to “die and go to hell” coincide with the imprecatory Bible verses [in which there are actually very few of in scripture].

One thing that aggravated the hell out of me during this interview was Alex Jones saying repeatedly that Anderson’s words were “taken out of context”. In my story about Anderson last month, I provided the video of the entire sermon and large portions of the dialogue from the sermon. To suggest that Anderson is a victim of being “taken out of context” and for Jones to play the “out of context” card is reminiscent of when Bill O’ Reilly continually cries “out of context” in order to cover up for the fact that whenever O’ Reilly’s context was played in its entirety, it usually incriminated him more. Anderson’s full context incriminates him more, and Alex Jones plays right into his hands.

Another O’ Reilly-style characteristic of this interview was the fact that while both Jones and Anderson cried “out of context”, “out of context”, Jones did not play one portion of any of Anderson’s sermons. Anderson was allowed to simply just recite generalizations of what he claimed he said and not once during the entire interview was either an audio clip played of Anderson’s words, nor did Jones read verbatim quotes from Anderson’s sermons.

There was only one reference to Chris Broughton, the man who brought an assault rifle to Obama’s speech about health care in Arizona on August 17, who just happens to be a member of Steve Anderson’s church. What I find interesting is that earlier in the interview, Anderson had said, “I don’t understand why this is even such a big news story.” Apparently Anderson suffers from short-term memory.

On May 31 of this year, abortion doctor George Tiller was gunned down in his own church in Wichita, Kansas by a nutball named Scott Roeder. There has never been any evidence that Roeder was influenced to kill Tiller by the fact that FOX News commentator Bill O’ Reilly had continually demonized Dr. Tiller for 5 years on his TV show The O’ Reilly Factor. But, the fact remains that all fingers pointed in O’ Reilly’s direction (and rightly so) for potentially creating nationwide hatred for Tiller, thus potentially influencing and driving Roeder to walk into Tiller’s church and gun him down.

In Anderson’s case, we have one of his own church members [Chris Broughton] who sits in the pews and listens, week after week, to Anderson demonize Barack Obama. Oh, and by the way, Broughton just happens to own an assault rifle and [as previously stated] he has already showed up at one of Obama’s speeches WITH the rifle.

Here’s my point: If Scott Roeder can possibly be influenced by a news commentator 1,500 miles away to kill a man, how many times greater are the odds that Chris Broughton could be influenced to kill by the words of a man who is standing right in front of him week after week?

And Anderson doesn’t “understand why this is even such a big news story?” Is he kidding?

I have been supporting and defending Alex Jones for years now, but my conscience tells me this time, I can’t. As much as I hate the corruption from our leaders in Washington and from the global elites throughout the world, I would never advocate openly praying for their deaths. If they died naturally, would I mourn? Probably not. But, there is a colossal difference between revealing to groups of people in an open forum [especially church] that you pray for them to die and go to hell [when in reality, as a person of God, you are supposed to love them and pray for their well-being…even if they are your enemy] and having no remorse if they just died naturally.

Alex Jones and his listeners need to distance themselves as far as they possibly can from the likes of Steve Anderson. I realize I have contributed to PrisonPlanet with many of my writings and I’m taking the chance of being banned for good from their site for expressing my views in this article.

My site is supposed to be about the truth. That means I am supposed to have the integrity and the guts to call people out on lying, being fraudulent or in this case, associating with dangerous people---even if the person [in this case Alex Jones] is someone I support and admire. If having the integrity to speak my mind against even to those with whom I have supported most of the time gets me ostracized from a website, so be it. I will not sell my soul for any one person.

I don’t follow or worship any one person. I follow and worship the truth, and it is my strong conviction that the truth about Steve Anderson is: he just may be one of the most dangerous people in America.

49 comments:

curt maynard said...

youve made me look a fool in the past but this is pretty hard against alex jones.

curt maynard said...

youve made me look a fool in the past but this is pretty hard against alex jones.

common sence for you said...

alex might be on the brink with this guy larry.

Anonymous said...

soon alex will start interviewing john hagee. religion and polatics dont mix. remember seperation of church and state.

the_last_name_left said...

Hey - I'm proud of you Larry! ;)

But I must point out that these flaws of Jones which you now see (in only this case) actually exist in every case.

The way you perhaps feel about Alex Jones getting cosy with the Reverend Anderson is the way I feel about everyone around Jones. You might want to check out the Reverend Pike, for example, or err.... Willis Carto? Carto never even gets mentioned by name.

Larry: "To suggest that Anderson is a victim of being “taken out of context” and for Jones to play the “out of context” card ........... Anderson’s full context incriminates him more, and Alex Jones plays right into his hands.

That's typical Jones. If you really look at him then you'll see he's like that about everything : he's cynically manipulative and desperately hypocritical.

You pointed to taking things out of context - and yet Prisonplanet is founded on doing exactly that. Hopefully you'll begin to see that increasingly now that you've seen it at least once.

I find it quite disturbing to see Alex Jones smoozying with the reverend anderson - and all the others too. This epsiode doesn't surprise me as it's all perfectly in character.

It's pretty sick - and serious - to pretend that it's actually "OK" for a preacher to preach about wanting to see the president dead (and abortionists and a long list of others, presumably).

But I feel much the same when he pretends that Willis Carto's stuff is "OK" too. (Even though he won't mention Carto directly.)

Anyway, Larry, I'm glad you've come to your senses somewhat and have begun to recognise some of Jones' faults. But I repeat - your criticism of Jones over this Rev. Anderson thing applies to everything Jones does, not just over this issue with Anderson. I imagine you'll see that yourself increasingly. I hope so. :)

Larry said...

We'll have to agree to disagree on the "EVERYTHING Jones does" line. I admit I dont listen to his show everyday, but most things I agree with him on. I have followed Jones now for 5 years (not "followed" like a sheep--I mean Ive supported him) and I have only been upset at him 3 times. When he acted like a complete DICK during the interview he did ith Peter Joseph, and just recently when he showed support for Kevin Trudeau (convicted felon and known FRAUD) and now this with Anderson.

I do agree that AT TIMES PrisonPlanet sensationalizes some stories, but overall they are on the mark--ESPECIALLY in the 9-11 stuff. I cannot find you fully credible when I have debunked just about everyhing youve said about it. The National Geographic hit piece this past Monday was a complete joke----please tell me you didnt think that "debunked" us, do you? Just listen to the interview I have posted by David Ray Griffin, underneath the Alex Jones story and listen to Griffn debunk every NatGeo lie. And by the way, 50% of the NatGeo channel is owned by Rupert Murdoch's NEWS CORPORATION. Think thy're interested in the truth? LOL

the_last_name_left said...

Well, I'm sure you will increasingly see the prevalence of the things you criticised - simply because they're endemic to Jones and Prisonplanet.

There's really no reason to expect us to agree, as we have very different views. The disagreement between us is essentially characterised by the phrase "the left/right divide". I'm left, and you're right. So the left/right paradigm is real, right?

As a crude test we could run through a list of characterisations about left/right and check our views and differences against them. I don't doubt we'd find the differences indicative of a genuine deep-seated difference between us which would fall into a left/right paradigm.

It's a con to say "there's no left or right", as Alex Jones does especially as he proceeds publishing and promoting a very singular and narrow christian, neo-liberal capitalism. All whilst attacking anything remotely like socialism as "satanic global elite" fantasmagoria.

No left or right? Sure......so how come everything he says is right wing - christian - capitalist and everything he opposes is left-wing, atheistic and socialist? He's a fraud - from ignorance or design. I suspect design, because he's so coherently and systematically fraudulent - and it's all paying off for him just like it is for 'the good Pastor Steven Anderson.'

Similarly, I don't see why Pastor Anderson deserves your opprobrium, Larry, whilst you even promote Willis Carto.

You point out that NatGeo is a Murdoch enterprise, but you even link to Willis Carto. I'm no fan of Rupert Murdoch - I oppose the extent of his ownership - and I oppose his views. I also oppose how the two things interrelate and operate together to further Murdoch's own conception of politics, and everything else. Murdoch has a voice, and he has a big say.

But those same concerns should apply to Willis Carto too. He's not as big a player as Murdoch by any means, but regardless of relative success and power, Carto is someone who actually hangs with genuine Nazis - Murdoch does not.

The fact that you or Alex Jones or anyone else can question Murdoch's output whilst unquestionably supporting Carto's output is astounding. You yourself link to someone who hangs with real Nazis (Willis Carto's AFP), but you deride the National Geographic because it's half-owned by Murdoch! You'll criticise bible literalists but not Nazis? On what sort of grounds?

Think about it? Why don't you link to Murdoch's National Geographic 'propaganda' if you're going to link to Willis Carto's? Why do you only raise the issue of ownership and propaganda when speaking of Murdoch's output but not that of Willis Carto? Why is Jones' relationship with Pastor Steven Anderson so important to you but Jones' relationship with Willis Carto is not? Why does bible literalism and christian fundamentalism offend you but Nazism, racism and anti-semitism do not?

the_last_name_left said...

But if racism, anti-semitism and Nazism offend you, then as with Pastor Anderson and his homophobia, you have to wonder what Alex Jones is doing being mixed up with it. And one has to conclude Alex Jones supports those things: he only gives air-time to stuff he supports and the only appearance of critical voices are those presented as "smears" and "hit-pieces".

Alex Jones sells Willis Carto's books FFS! He points people at Carto's websites. Jones is thick with Willis Carto and his "stuff". That's fine? But watch out if Alex does anything for some nutty homophobic preacher?

The preacher is important - Murdoch is important - Alex Jones is important - but Willis Nazi Carto ain't? How come?
--------

This also points to the issue about ownership - Murdoch's extensive ownership of the press, for example. It is obviously anti-democratic because Murdoch has far more of a voice and "a say" in the goings on of more countries than anyone else alive.

But that's private property, and the free market......man. That's how it is. The only other position is to try to intervene in the market by limiting ownership or changing the terms of ownership.

It's easy to recognise the dangers posed by Murdoch's ownership of media. It's "a fact". But if one commits to free-market neo-liberal fundamentalist stuff then such "facts" are inevitable consequences as nothing can be legitimately used to retard monopolies and the dominance of heritable wealth through dynasties such as Murdoch who is but a modern example. Likewise with taxation - successful opposition to progressive income tax means Murdoch would simply own even more and contribute even less.

the_last_name_left said...

Foregoing democratic control over important aspects of society in the name of supporting "small government" is a con. In a "free-market neo-liberal" ideal world of Ron Paul and all that lot Murdoch would reign supreme and unchallenged. Well, apart from us being left to believe in the mysticism that markets will produce greater rational outcomes than irrational ones, and more efficient operations than inefficient ones.

Alex Jones' unstinting support for President went to the neo-liberal, market-fundamentalist Ron Paul. Such a position implies lower taxes for Murdoch and all his endeavours and even less controls over Murdoch's ownership of media, interference in civic life, etc.

To suggest one can do anything to restrain Murdoch, for example, is to invite Prisonplanet's scorn. To suggest restricting Murdoch's market share would be condemned as "big brother government" and socialsit "wealth redistribution" which Jones denounces as "communist trash". Likewise to suggest greater oversight of banks - for Jones and co that's evidence of you wanting "big government".

Somehow Jones' wish for an increased border patrol presence doesn't qualify as his wanting "big government". Likewise for employee registrations to prevent illegal immigrants working - that ain't "big government", right, to check every amerrican is actually genuine amereeecuun? Else you can't work! Yeah - cool - how very libertarian!

Jones said he drools when he thinks of the Israeli Wall/Security fence. He said "that thing is beautiful" and he wanted one in America. Small government style, right? That's an astonishing thing for Jones to say? It betrays a limited (nationalist) view of human rights, reveals hypocrisy of Jones' wish for "small government" and his skin-deep opposition to "police state".

Anyway, enough! I hope this will at least hold in your mind a little when you approach Jones and Prionplanet, Larry.

Oh here's a bit of dialogue between Pastor Steven Anderson and a radio interviewer. (It's from the interviewer's blog) The interviewer is gay, and he did tell Anderson eventually, but at the point of the conversation from which the quote comes, Pastor Anderson had not yet been told by the interviewer that he was, in fact, gay.)

I had Anderson on the show (above is a video of selected parts of the interview, while below is the full audio of the interview) because I believe we can't afford to ignore these violence-inciting individuals, not in this time in which Republicans are whipping them into a frenzy. One of the men who brought an assault weapon to President Obama's speech in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago attends Anderson's church. Better to expose them and let the world hear them.

Anderson actually told me that, though he wouldn't encourage it, he would not condemn any person who killed President Obama or call that person a murderer. He does not believe that the man who allegedly killed Dr. George Tiller, the Kansas doctor who performed late-term abortions, a murderer. And he said he would not call someone who shot a group of gays and lesbians with a machine gun a murderer:


Interviewer: You want all gay people to be executed, correct?

Pastor Anderson: That is correct. It is what the Bible teaches.


Well there ya go.

the_last_name_left said...

I'd just like to add a question about whether there's any difference in principle between killing people because they're gay and killing people because they're communists, jews, gypsies, undesirable......whatever.

Whilst Alex jones is on one hand giving direct succour to people like Pastor Anderson endorsing execution of homosexuals, with the other hand he's feeding his audience to people who say the exact same things about jews.

You have to accept he knows what he is doing?

Come on, Larry - you can't say Jones' support for this pastor is questionable, but discount Jones' links to Willis Carto.

Why protest the execution of gays but not jews?

And total-up all the people deserving of execution amongst those whom receive Alex Jones' endorsement? Gays, jews, communists, bankers.......

Somehow that list has a familiar ring to it? And as if that sort of bloodbath is going to help anything really! How could it?

But anyway - point being - why is calling for homosexuals to be killed different from calling for jews to be killed? or communists or whatever.

I'd like to note how reluctantly Jones goes into print expressing his own beliefs. You'd think it would be easy to find Jones explaining his own beliefs - such is his prodigious output. Seemingly.

But try and find Jones speaking in print and for himself where he says anything unequivocally? It's nowhere to be found. You have to piece it together yourself - and Pastor Anderson is a piece as is Willis Carto.

It's not a pretty picture.

Larry said...

First of all, there is no way Im getting into the left/right shit with you again. I explain myself on this over and over and over and over and yet you keep acting as if I never address it. To me, its not "left/right" its "right/wrong", "truth/lies".

You have not PROVEN to me ONCE that Jones is linked to Willis Carto nor have you ever PROVEN to me that Carto RUNS AFP. PROVE those two things----keep in mind, I said PROVE---and I will believe it.

"he only gives air-time to stuff he supports and the only appearance of critical voices are those presented as "smears" and "hit-pieces"." That's true for the most part, but ask yourself this: Who, who opposes Jones, will agree to go ON his show, unless it's the people you said?

If eveything Jones supports is right wing, why does he attack FOX news so much? and Bush, Cheney, Glenn Beck, Hannity, Coulte, Limbaugh, Rick Perry, McCain--I could go on and on. Answer that.

You call Ron Paul a new liberal? Wow. I call him a modern day founding father. Im for the Constitution, if that means lower or no taxes for the elite, then so be it, but that doesnt mean people like Murdoch will own more just because he's tax free. He already has money out the asshole even AS taxpayer.

To answer your question:

"why is calling for homosexuals to be killed different from calling for jews to be killed? or communists or whatever." Who said I was for ANYone being killed? Because I link to a site that YOU SAY Willis Carto RUNS? Yet you have NO proof?

I'll listen to that interview you sent. By the way, I lean more toward religious issues on my site because I think most religious people are nuts. They shape their whole life and ideologies around something they cant prove.

the_last_name_left said...

Carto certainly is Mr AFP:

From their own bookstore: Willis Carto And The American Far Right

Who Is Willis Carto?
Meet the man who's been called frightening, controversial and mysterious and who's been a driving force behind such independent media voices as The Spotlight, The Barnes Review and American Free Press among, many others . . .


Wiki says "Carto and several Spotlight staff members and writers have since founded a new newspaper called the American Free Press."

AFP = CARTO = AFP

Jones' links to Carto are more longstanding and deeper than his connections to Pastor Anderson. On my blog I list a load of pages at Prisonplanet which link to AFP. I also mention some of the other connections, such as Eustace Mullins and Big Jim Tucker, both of whom feature prominently at Prisonplanet AND Carto's AFP. Eustace Mullins has long-time association with Nazis and Willis Carto - none of which ever gets mentioned when Prisonplanet fawn over "the great" Eustace Mullins. Likewise Big Jim Tucker is cast as a hero journalist, rather than a lifelong hack for fascist rags like Spotlight - now AFP. Jim Tucker works for Alex in Endgame and elsewhere. And Tucker's worked closely with Carto for 30 years! To imagine Alex doesn't know this is fantasy.

There's no doubt Willis Carto runs AFP, and there's no doubt Carto and Alex Jones are tight.

Facts.

And who is Willis Carto?

Willis Carto has been one of the most influential American anti-Semitic propagandists of the past 50 years. Since emerging as a right-wing organizer in San Francisco in the early 1950s, he has been associated with nearly every significant far-right movement in the country, from neo-Nazism to militias, segregationism to Holocaust denial. Known for his reclusiveness, he has founded and overseen from behind the scenes an intricate network of bigotry whose outlets have included Liberty and Property, Western Destiny, the Noontide Press, American Mercury, National Youth Alliance, the Institute for Historical Review, the Populist Party and, most notably, Liberty Lobby. In 2001, both Carto and Liberty Lobby were bankrupted after Carto lost a long court battle with the Institute for Historical Review (which broke with him in 1993). His editorial staff at Liberty Lobby's now-defunct Spotlight, the most widely read publication on the fringe right, resumed publication under the title American Free Press in August 2001

the_last_name_left said...

Willis Carto in a nutshell:

Willis Carto is the most influential professional antisemite in the United States. He is the founder of Liberty Lobby, the Institute for Historical Review, the Noontide Press (which distributes a wide range of racist and antisemitic titles), and the Populist Party, whose 1988 Presidential candidate was David Duke. Carto's name came up in nearly every conversation held between Ron Furey, S.W.C. researcher, Richard Eaton, and the neo-Nazis.

Carto has a 60 year record of hanging with people like Klan and Nazis. FACT. Indisputable fact. :)

And Alex Jones must know all this - witness that he's very careful never to tell his audience of any of it though - about Carto and the Nazis - so that shows he understands the score? Alex understands the point is precisely *not* to tell people about Carto and the Nazis even whilst introducing his audience to them.

Larry said...

OK, nothing you said was PROOF that Carto RUNS AFP or that Alex Jones endorses Carto. Did you even notice when I asked for PROOF? A website selling one of his books does not mean he RUNS the site.

You keep saying Jim Tucker has worked close with Carto---but have never given me PROOF. Do you know what the word "PROOF" means?

How do you explain the fact that Jones endorses Jim Marrs, and Marrs has been one of the biggest exposers of the roots of Nazism and the fact that Nazis are still around today---not Neo-Nazis, but the actual Nazis from the past?

You ignored my question:

"If eveything Jones supports is right wing, why does he attack FOX news so much? and Bush, Cheney, Glenn Beck, Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh, Rick Perry, McCain--I could go on and on. Answer that."

Do you even have an answer?

Oh, and please stop copying and pasting unless its someone's quote. Theres no way Im going to believe you sat there and write out all those posts from your head.

the_last_name_left said...

Well, I did write those posts - apart from the bold italicised paragraphs - which are obviously quotes.

What does it matter where they come from, especially? Do some looking and satisfy yourself that Carto equals AFP.

I mean - how many times can the same thing be said before you accept something? CArto equals AFP. What sort of proof do you want? Prove Alex Jones works for Prisonplanet? Or Ted Anderson owns GCN radio?

Anyway - from SourceWatch:

American Free Press

From SourceWatch

The American Free Press (AFP) is a publication launched by Willis Carto, who previously published Spotlight magazine through his now-defunct Liberty Lobby, an organization worked with racist anti-segregationists and neo-Nazi holocaust deniers. AFP was launched by Carto in August 2001 following the court-ordered closure of Spotlight. Many of the staff of Spotlight continued on with American Free Press.

Carto continues to publish deceptive materials in which history is treated as a huge Jewish conspiracy. During the war with Iraq, for example, his Barnes Review attempted to exploit anti-war sentiment by publishing fake whistleblower memos on media bias in the Iraq war, which cast the Iraq war as a conspiracy by "Jews who run the media and government."


http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Free_Press

As for the question whether Jones is close to Carto's AFP or not, well, again it is a clearcut matter of fact:

Where does Tucker come in? Tucker wrote for The Spotlight throughout its 26-year run. When it folded, he co-founded The American Free Press, which toned down the white racist rhetoric just enough to be mistaken for a respectable publication by people who aren't terribly bright (*cough*Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas, Kevin Barrett*cough*).

http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.com/2009/04/big-jim-tucker.html

Tucker is all over PRisonplanet - in Jones' films, on his show, on his website. Tucker is Jones' go-to man for anything about "the Bilderbergers".

And Jones publishes AFP articles, interviews AFP staff, sells their books, promotes them in glowing positive terms......

All without mentioning what AFP really is and who is involved with it, and what they really believe. It's plain weird how Alex never mentions the fascism or the racism that lurks all around these AFP types. Apparently he consciously avoids the issue. Why?

the_last_name_left said...

The following is some dialogue at what appears to be a far-right - or at least plain anti-semitic website -

Jim Tucker fired Mark Glenn from American Free Press

Postby MikeWB » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:38 am
Whoa, this is a huge news! Jim Tucker, the editor of AFP, didn't renew Mark Glenn's contract and told him that his stories were mainly "jew bashing".

........


Re: Jim Tucker fired Mark Glenn from American Free Press

Postby scorpio11 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:31 am
I subscribed to the AFP back in the mid 80's when it was still called the Spotlight.
It was a good first step away from the mainstream ziomedia for me.

.....

Jim Tucker is a little too cozy with AJ for my taste.

That fossil Tucker is always on AJs show and this fossil thinks he has it right


Re: Jim Tucker fired Mark Glenn from American Free Press

Postby MikeWB » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:48 pm
During the show, some woman called in and also talked about AJ-Bermas-Tucker connections and how AJ was probably the reason why Tucker said that. AJ must have told Tucker to move AFP to a more mainstream view so he can push it on his show (or something to that effect).
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6979

Well, they clearly see Jones as being pretty close to AFP - too close for their forum's pleasure at least.

So is Jones actually influencing AFP? Whatever - there's no doubt Alex Jones is close to the AFP crowd. And, of course, Jones is making a living providing a relatively huge amount of publicity for AFP and their associates and interests. Jones even casts them in Orwellian doublespeak as "freedom-lovers" and "truthwarriors".

Nazis? Fascists? Rabid jew-haters? All cast as "lovers of liberty" by Alex Jones! Furthermore he does them the favour of whitewashing away all their connections to genuine racism, fascism and even nazism.

Alex is conscious to avoid any such connections. But rather than do the obvious and disavow any connections - by simply not having them - he instead just continues his association but hides the facts away by studiously ignoring them.

And of course, by furiously pointing out what he sometimes calls fascism Alex and his supporters can claim he is "anti-fascist". But that's a hollow claim when they throw the term "fascist" around so much and yet carefully ignore the genuine fascism around AFP and Alex's guests, writers, contributors, whatever.

It's a bit of a joke? Pantomime Alex Jones looking for "fascists" - the audience are furiously pointing, shouting "They're behind you!!"

As if he doesn't know.

the_last_name_left said...

Check out the picture and caption in this AFP newsletter (pdf)
http://www.americanfreepress.net/Issue_30_Mullins_Wrap_2009.pdf


IT shows Eustace Mullins visiting the AFP offices - with Mullins, Willis Carto and Jim Tucker amongst others.

Go and look into Mullins, to take just one example. He's paraded as a "hero" by Alex Jones and AFP - but go look for yourself?

http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/mullins

From another AFP newsletter, talking about a book by Jim Tucker:

There’s also an Afterword by Willis A. Carto, the man who first ordered Tucker to cover Bilderberg for The Spotlight newspaper, realizing what was happening behind closed doors at Bilderberg meetings was far more important—and sinister— than Bilderberg press releases were
admitting.


http://www.americanfreepress.net/Jim_Tucker_Bilderberg1.pdf

And here's an interesting view from a discussion of the film techniques used in Loose Change:

Many other sources are intentionally obstructed in order to hide their dubious origins. Perhaps the most deceptive of these involves material from the American Free Press, a self-proclaimed populist publication spearheaded by Willis Carto. The website’s “About Us” page lets the reader know the publication’s mission statement, part of which is to educate people about the nefarious “Masters of the Media” that “promote the perverse, anti-Christian Cultural Communist ideology that permeates publishing and broadcasting today” (American Free Press). Even the most perfunctory reader would come to the conclusion that this is not the most reputable source material.
Avery takes note to mention this publication, but uses it more frequently than it is cited. The image of the American Free Press logo conveys a patriotic authority, but Avery makes sure not to put too much emphasis on what the publication is or where it gets its information. There are many instances in which the film mentions a source but takes special care to obstruct its origins. Many of these involve excerpts from American Free Press articles: the surrounding text is darkened to the point of illegibility, and any acknowledgement of the publication is done so within the article, but with the acronym “AFP.” Avery makes no effort to hide the acronym, for it means nothing to the viewer. These letters could represent a number of organizations—including Agence France-Presse, a highly reputable global news agency—but Avery makes no attempt to specify. Given the semiotic inclusion of well-respected news outlets previously in the film, it seems suspicious that Avery would have material from a reputable source and make no attempt to cite it.


http://www.trinity.edu/adelwich/documentary/n.nobel.2006.loose.change.pdf

That writer gets it spot-on: the entire thing about using AFP is very carefully treated by Prisonplanet/Loose Change/ 911 Truth.

THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

Anonymous said...

larry, dont you understand this guy proves you right while argueing his side. he refute nothing debunks nothing. what about seperation of church and state. why alex has sided with this guy is nuts. alex is sraying from the norm.

Anonymous said...

First of all, this "well this guy knows this guy whos a fascist and he prints this magazine and Jones is friends with him!" bullshit is ridiculous. If its not first hand dont hold it against him. In THIS case, Alex is directly attempting to give this man credibility and treating him like he matters. Its like how he posts Rev. Ted Pikes hateful and bullshit articles. JOnes is losing it.

the_last_name_left said...

@ anon - Jim Tucker is not just "someone who knows someone who is a fascist".

Tucker features extensively on Prisonplanet and throughout Jones' output - and Tucker has worked with America's leading far-right propagandist - Willis Carto - for 30 years.

The connections don't stop there either.

The Reverend Pike for example, whom you mentioned? He ALSO writes for Carto's AFP. He also writes for David Dukes' White Rights website. He also features at Prisonplanet and on Jones' show.

Just coincidences, right?

And just a coincidence that Alex's guest and fellow GCN radio host Mike Rivero is ALSO mixed-up with all the same nazis, fascists, jew-haters and holocaust deniers?

And just a coincidence that both Jones and Rivero claim there's fascism abroad but neither of them can remember that their own friends colleagues and contributors are genuine fascists, nazis, racists and jew-haters?

All coincidence.......sure.

It's kinda funny, and revealing, how Alex and Rivero's supporters consider someone being a jew suspicious, or going to a Bilderberg meeting is suspicious - but hanging out with genuine fascists, publishing their articles, promoting them on the radio and on their websites is just "coincidence" and means nothing.

How come Jones' relationship with Rev Pike and Pastor Anderson are so damaging yet the much closer and longstanding ties with genuine far-right extremism - even Nazism - are shrugged off as "guilt by association"? The point is - why are they associated at all? There must be good reasons for it.

It's a very serious charge against Jones, Rivero and their friends in "the movement": they are crypto-nazis using their audiences genuine concern over future of America and 911 and Iraq etc as a springboard to insinuate their fascism into public discourse.

They might at least be honest about it - at least then they couldn't be accused of cynical exploitation of their auddiences ignorance. So why aren't they honest and up-front about it instead of very carefully avoiding the issue as they always do? Because they know it would finish them and banish them to the fringes of the extremist far-right where they belong. The whole point is to hoodwink their audience and shift them progressively to a fascist perspective. Like the boiling frog scenario where the frog doesn't notice gradual changes until he's boiling to death.

And what is the response of most truth movement members and Jones supporters to such information. Denial. Then deletion of any relevant information.

So, kudos to Larry for letting me voice my mind, even if he disagrees with my view. Thank you Larry, I appreciate it - especially as you don't actually agree with me. If only the rest of your "movement" was as forthcoming it'd be in much better shape.

Anonymous said...

Guilt by association is a fools game that only weak minded morons engage in.

Anonymous said...

its getting to easy for you to destroy this pile of shit larry. hes your bitch. youve made him use commenbt moderation. you own his blog spot.

rob said...

you now own five blogs now prison planet. can anyone give you competition? i have to go through you to get to prison planet. ill just start posting here. i wont be censored here. great work larry on your integrity of your blog. keep up the good job.

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